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Oct 1, 2012
10/12
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CNNW
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you will see this law jam break. >> when we come back, the question we have been asking. bill clinton's big speech at the democratic convention. >> i was young. perhaps i could have done another term. , a proud dad whose online friends all "like" the photos he's posting. oscar likes tom's photos, but he loves the access to tom's personal information. oscar's an identity thief who used tom's personal info to buy new teeth and a new car, and stuck tom with the $57,000 bill. [tires squeal] now meet carl who works from the coffee shop and uses the free wi-fi. marie works from there too. she's an identity thief who used a small device to grab his wi-fi signal, then stole enough personal information to hijack and drain his bank accounts. every year, millions of americans learn all it may take to devastate your life is a little personal information in the wrong hands. this is identity theft and no one helps stop it better than lifelock. lifelock offers the most comprehensive identity theft protection, period. ordinary credit monitoring services may take 30 days to alert you. lif
you will see this law jam break. >> when we come back, the question we have been asking. bill clinton's big speech at the democratic convention. >> i was young. perhaps i could have done another term. , a proud dad whose online friends all "like" the photos he's posting. oscar likes tom's photos, but he loves the access to tom's personal information. oscar's an identity thief who used tom's personal info to buy new teeth and a new car, and stuck tom with the $57,000 bill....
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you will see this law jam break. >> when we come back, the question we have been asking. bill clinton's big speech at the democratic convention. yeah, that's the wa >> i was young. perhaps i could have done another term. . a little bit more vanilla? this is great! [ male announcer ] at humana, we believe there's never been a better time to share your passions... because the results... are you having fun doing this? yeah. that's a very nice cake! [ male announcer ] well, you can't beat them. [ giggles ] ohh! you got something huh? whoa... [ male announcer ] humana understands the value of spending time together that's a lot of work getting that one in! let's go see the birdies. [ male announcer ] one on one, sharing what you know. let's do it grandpa. that's why humana agents will sit down with you, to listen and understand what's important to you. it's how we help you choose the right humana medicare plan for you. because when your medicare is taken care of, you can spend more time sharing your passions. wow. [ giggles ] [ male announcer ] with the people who matter most.
you will see this law jam break. >> when we come back, the question we have been asking. bill clinton's big speech at the democratic convention. yeah, that's the wa >> i was young. perhaps i could have done another term. . a little bit more vanilla? this is great! [ male announcer ] at humana, we believe there's never been a better time to share your passions... because the results... are you having fun doing this? yeah. that's a very nice cake! [ male announcer ] well, you can't...
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you will see this law jam break. >> when we come back, the question we have been asking. bill clinton's big speech at the democratic convention. would america have been better off with another clinton term. >> i was young. perhaps i could have done another term. ones i've made. ones we've all made. about marriage. children. money. about tomorrow. here's to good decisions. who matters most to you says the most about you. massmutual is owned by our policyholders so they matter most to us. massmutual. we'll help you get there. one is for a clean, wedomestic energy future that puts us in control. our abundant natural gas is already saving us money, producing cleaner electricity, putting us to work here in america and supporting wind and solar. though all energy development comes with some risk, we're committed to safely and responsibly producing natural gas. it's not a dream. america's natural gas... putting us in control of our energy future, now. >> i have come to cgi every year since i have been president. i talked about how to sustain the economic recovery, how to gain mo
you will see this law jam break. >> when we come back, the question we have been asking. bill clinton's big speech at the democratic convention. would america have been better off with another clinton term. >> i was young. perhaps i could have done another term. ones i've made. ones we've all made. about marriage. children. money. about tomorrow. here's to good decisions. who matters most to you says the most about you. massmutual is owned by our policyholders so they matter most to...
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Oct 4, 2012
10/12
by
CSPAN
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that's explicitly prohibited in the law. but let's go back to what governor romney indicated, that under his plan, he would be able to cover people with pre- existing conditions. that isn't what your plan does. what your plan does is to duplicate what's already the law, which is that if you are out of health insurance for three months, then you can end up in getting continuous coverage and an insurance company can deny you if it's been under 90 days. -- cannot deny you if it's been under 90 days. but that's already the law, and that doesn't help them and the people out there with preexisting editions. -- the millions of people out there with preexisting conditions. there's a reason why governor romney set up the plan he did in massachusetts. it wasn't a government takeover of health care. it was the largest expansion of private insurance. but what it does say is that, insurers, you've got to take everybody. that also means you've got more customers. but when governor romney says he'll replace it with something but cannot det
that's explicitly prohibited in the law. but let's go back to what governor romney indicated, that under his plan, he would be able to cover people with pre- existing conditions. that isn't what your plan does. what your plan does is to duplicate what's already the law, which is that if you are out of health insurance for three months, then you can end up in getting continuous coverage and an insurance company can deny you if it's been under 90 days. -- cannot deny you if it's been under 90...
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Oct 1, 2012
10/12
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KCSM
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two dozen corporate law firms and lobbying firms. and some thousand state legislators a few of them democrats, the majority of them republican. >> alec is a corporate dating service for lonely legislators and corporate special interests that eventually the relationship culminates with some special interest legislation and hopefully that lives happily ever after as the alec model. unfortunately what's excluded from that equation is the public. >> in the wisconsin statehouse, democratic representative mark pocan is trying to expose alec's fingerprints whenever he can. by one count, over a third of pocan's fellow wisconsin lawmakers are alec members. >> when you look around especially on the republican side of the aisle, a lot of members of alec, front row, alec, when you start going down to the chair of finance and some of the other members are all alec members, in fact the alec co-chair of the state, row by row you can point out people who have been members of alec over the years. there's two main categories they have. one is how to r
two dozen corporate law firms and lobbying firms. and some thousand state legislators a few of them democrats, the majority of them republican. >> alec is a corporate dating service for lonely legislators and corporate special interests that eventually the relationship culminates with some special interest legislation and hopefully that lives happily ever after as the alec model. unfortunately what's excluded from that equation is the public. >> in the wisconsin statehouse,...
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Oct 6, 2012
10/12
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KQEH
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we had the most sometime law active fiscal policy in our history by far, the most sometime law active monetary policy in history and we have not in four years been able to get out of this recession which is still plaguing the country. in part because the stimulus program was badly structured. you've seen that argued by many. >> are you talking about tarp? >> not just tarp. the whole fiscal stimulus was badly structured. >> by whom? >> by this administration. it didn't work. >> what about the fed? >> the fed did whatever they could. we have the lowest monetary levels, the biggest monetary stimulus, the lowest interest rate in our history. >> john, nothing is working. we've also had the bush tax cuts for four years. you've had the huge stimulus package. you've had the monetary policy exploding more than it's ever been. nothing is working. the growth of the economy is slowing. >> does that exonerate obama? >> no, it doesn't. >> he knew what he was inheriting. did he know what he was inheriting? >> he's a failed president. he got a bad situation, and he failed. >> why, why, why? >> becaus
we had the most sometime law active fiscal policy in our history by far, the most sometime law active monetary policy in history and we have not in four years been able to get out of this recession which is still plaguing the country. in part because the stimulus program was badly structured. you've seen that argued by many. >> are you talking about tarp? >> not just tarp. the whole fiscal stimulus was badly structured. >> by whom? >> by this administration. it didn't...
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also voters in pennsylvania got their voice back as a judge blocked that state's voter suppression id law from going into effect what about the millions of other americans whose votes are under attack by conservatives how do they get their say back and if you look at now i should nationwide polling it appears of president obama's pulling away from mitt romney even in the all important swing states where conservatives are saying that's hogwash and that the polls are being skewed because this outlandish conspiracy theory actually prove valuable for conservatives come november. you need to know that the banks there's blatant fraud in the run up to the financial crisis as in gone unnoticed by one top lawyer in the nation new york attorney general eric schneiderman who also chairs the president's mortgage fraud task force filed a civil suit against j.p. morgan chase for quote widespread fraud in the sale of mortgage backed securities and this is the first legal action brought against the banks by this task force most of the allegations are actually against field bank backed bank bear stearns w
also voters in pennsylvania got their voice back as a judge blocked that state's voter suppression id law from going into effect what about the millions of other americans whose votes are under attack by conservatives how do they get their say back and if you look at now i should nationwide polling it appears of president obama's pulling away from mitt romney even in the all important swing states where conservatives are saying that's hogwash and that the polls are being skewed because this...
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Oct 3, 2012
10/12
by
MSNBC
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law in pennsylvania. tim burns, the pennsylvania democratic party chair, and katherine culliton-gonzalez. director of the voter protection program at advancement project. i just want -- i know she doesn't outrank either of you gentlemen, but i want her to start because she's an expert at this. how important is this for the people who were trying to push this through and how important was it to defeat it in pennsylvania for this election? >> this is huge. it's a great victory. we're pleased with it. the fight is still on. we've got to defeat this in the future in other states, but we've been fighting and winning in pennsylvania, in texas, and wisconsin against these restrictive photo i.d. laws. it's a great vindication for the people of pennsylvania. who would have been disenfranchised by it. >> what's the purpose? is it ethnic, partisan? who are they targeting to keep from voting? >> well, we only need to look at the facts. there's a disparate impact on the elderly, on students, on young people, and on af
law in pennsylvania. tim burns, the pennsylvania democratic party chair, and katherine culliton-gonzalez. director of the voter protection program at advancement project. i just want -- i know she doesn't outrank either of you gentlemen, but i want her to start because she's an expert at this. how important is this for the people who were trying to push this through and how important was it to defeat it in pennsylvania for this election? >> this is huge. it's a great victory. we're...
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Sep 29, 2012
09/12
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FOXNEWS
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. >> liberals are more likely to watch "law and order" or "30 rock." >> tonight tgf will not be the worst thing on television. it will be john stossel. who's with me? >> yeah, not surprised that liberals watch that. >> what difference does that make? >> it tells you things like if you want to reach an independent swing woman voter, buy the house and garden channel. if you want to reach a republican-leaning but less likely to vote independent swing man, go buy the golf channel. >> rove did research on blacks who might vote for bush and found many are christians who watch these tv preachers. >> now in the name of jesus, i command this debt out of my life. >> so rove placed advertisements there. >> in ohio, in 2000, bush got 2% of the african american vote. in 2004, he got 16%. we were able to identify a group of african american voters who, though, their history was overwhelming democrat, we had clues that gave us a sense they might be reachable. >> this year consultants want to reach not just swing voters, but swing voters in these 10 states. >> you take a map of the united states, and you
. >> liberals are more likely to watch "law and order" or "30 rock." >> tonight tgf will not be the worst thing on television. it will be john stossel. who's with me? >> yeah, not surprised that liberals watch that. >> what difference does that make? >> it tells you things like if you want to reach an independent swing woman voter, buy the house and garden channel. if you want to reach a republican-leaning but less likely to vote independent...
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at nova southeastern law school in broward, county. at florida atlantic university in boca raton -- >> hey, are you registered to vote? >> reporter: outside the courthouse, there's no mistaking which candidate allen supports, but he says -- >> we register -- >> reporter: 20-year-old jonathan registered. >> i'm looking in the future, like ten year, whatever they can do to make their four years count is what i really want. >> reporter: with so much at stake in florida, there can be a dark side to voter registration. susan booker discovered discrepancies, signatures that look the same. addresses that didn't appear right on more than 100 voter registration forms. >> we just haven't ever experienced this kind of issue with the registration forms, so that's got us a little disconce disconcerted. >> reporter: strategic allied consu consulting, hired by the republican party to register voters, was fired. strategic insists the problem was one individual. back in ft. lauderdale, not a good day for jessina and karen. only a handful of new registe
at nova southeastern law school in broward, county. at florida atlantic university in boca raton -- >> hey, are you registered to vote? >> reporter: outside the courthouse, there's no mistaking which candidate allen supports, but he says -- >> we register -- >> reporter: 20-year-old jonathan registered. >> i'm looking in the future, like ten year, whatever they can do to make their four years count is what i really want. >> reporter: with so much at stake in...
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Oct 5, 2012
10/12
by
FOXNEWS
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it's law that just makes sense. megyn: now to an inspirational story. a teenager with a big dream and rare medical condition earning a spot on the high school football team and thed a mir aifertion his teammates. >> reporter: starting tackle may be the most demanding position in football. but for sam it took a lot of courage simply to try out for the team. >> it's a difficult position to play. you get no notoriety. announcer is never going to say your name and you are never going to score any touchdowns. you do the dirty work of the team making a tackle. >> what he's learned to do, he finishes the tackle with his legs more. which is what we want as a coach. he has learned to compensate for the fact that he doesn't have that hand has made him a better technical tackler than some of our other kids that have both hands. >> it scares me for a second but then i have to think about how the lord blessed me with this athletic aabilities. he blessed me in so many ways i can't begin to imagine what he has planned. >> some people are looking at sam saying if he ca
it's law that just makes sense. megyn: now to an inspirational story. a teenager with a big dream and rare medical condition earning a spot on the high school football team and thed a mir aifertion his teammates. >> reporter: starting tackle may be the most demanding position in football. but for sam it took a lot of courage simply to try out for the team. >> it's a difficult position to play. you get no notoriety. announcer is never going to say your name and you are never going to...
WHUT (Howard University Television)
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Oct 4, 2012
10/12
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WHUT
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law would stop. you are 39 times more likely to be hit by lightning than you are to impersonate another broker at the polls. that said, the gop argument would be that there was large- scale voter fraud by groups like acorn in 2008, that that led to the illegitimate collection of barack obama. there are polls that showed that 52% of republicans believe acorn stole the election for barack obama. if you turn on fox news, a month before the election or a month after, all you heard was acorn, acorn. i think republicans convince themselves sincerely that acorn stole the election or they used it optimistically to push this message that voter fraud exists. and there is some evidence that message has broken through. 48% of the public in a recent poll said voter fraud is a major issue. even though there are people like me better saying voter fraud is not a big problem in u.s. elections, even though there is no major prosecutions by the bush administration or in states that have passed voter i.d. laws, just pen
law would stop. you are 39 times more likely to be hit by lightning than you are to impersonate another broker at the polls. that said, the gop argument would be that there was large- scale voter fraud by groups like acorn in 2008, that that led to the illegitimate collection of barack obama. there are polls that showed that 52% of republicans believe acorn stole the election for barack obama. if you turn on fox news, a month before the election or a month after, all you heard was acorn, acorn....
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Oct 2, 2012
10/12
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MSNBCW
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law in pennsylvania. tim burress, the pennsylvania democratic party chair, and katherine cowl tin-gonzalez. i know she doesn't outrank either of you but i want her to start because he's an expert. how important is this for the people who were trying to push this through and how important was it to defeat it in pennsylvania? >> this is huge. it's a great victory. the fight is still on. we've got to defeat this in the future in other states, but we've been fighting and winning in pennsylvania in taction and wisconsin against these restrictive photo i.d. laws. it's a great vintcation for the people of pennsylvania. >> what's the purpose? is it ethnic, partisan? who are they targeting? >> well, we only need to look fe facts. there's a disparate impact on the elderly, on students, on young people, and on african-americans and on latinos. that's why we're winning. we're fighting back and winning. >> bill clinton, who is very good at making things simple, as we know, he's done it again this summer, he said this
law in pennsylvania. tim burress, the pennsylvania democratic party chair, and katherine cowl tin-gonzalez. i know she doesn't outrank either of you but i want her to start because he's an expert. how important is this for the people who were trying to push this through and how important was it to defeat it in pennsylvania? >> this is huge. it's a great victory. the fight is still on. we've got to defeat this in the future in other states, but we've been fighting and winning in...
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Oct 3, 2012
10/12
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FOXNEWS
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this is where he signed the stimulus in law. tonight, he puts it all on the line trying to make his case for a second term. bret? >> bret: ed, thank you. experts will tell you the challenger often gets a slight bump in the polls after the first debate by standing next to the president. romney is hoping for that and more as he takes half the spotlight tonight. chief political correspondent carl cameron has that part of the story. >> reporter: romney prepared for weeks. 57% for the latest gallup poll think the president will win the debates to only 33% for romney on this evening main topic the economy economy, romney has an edge. 50% say things will improve if he becomes president to 35% who say they will get worse. if the president is re-elected, only 48% say it will get better to 40% who think it will worsen. romney released a new ad straight to camera today foreshadowing tonight's principal message. >> too many americans are struggling, living paycheck to paycheck. more americans live in poverty than when president obama took o
this is where he signed the stimulus in law. tonight, he puts it all on the line trying to make his case for a second term. bret? >> bret: ed, thank you. experts will tell you the challenger often gets a slight bump in the polls after the first debate by standing next to the president. romney is hoping for that and more as he takes half the spotlight tonight. chief political correspondent carl cameron has that part of the story. >> reporter: romney prepared for weeks. 57% for the...
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Sep 29, 2012
09/12
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CSPAN
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they enforced rule law. they encouraged trade and enterprise. they understood economic freedom is the only force in history that has consistently lifted people out of poverty and kept people out of poverty. a temporary aid package can give an economy a boost. it can fund projects that can pay some bills, employs some people for a time, but it cannot sustain an economy for the long term. it cannot pull the whole weight because at some point the money runs out. but an assistance program that helps unleash free enterprise can create enduring prosperity. free enterprise is based on mutual exchange, millions of people buying, trading, building, investing. it has its ups and downs. it is not perfect. it is more reliable and more durable, and ultimately history has shown it is more successful. by the way, perhaps the best example of the good that free enterprise can do is by looking at the example of the developed world itself. my friend arthur at the american enterprise institute has pointed out before 1800 living standards in the west were appalling.
they enforced rule law. they encouraged trade and enterprise. they understood economic freedom is the only force in history that has consistently lifted people out of poverty and kept people out of poverty. a temporary aid package can give an economy a boost. it can fund projects that can pay some bills, employs some people for a time, but it cannot sustain an economy for the long term. it cannot pull the whole weight because at some point the money runs out. but an assistance program that...
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Oct 1, 2012
10/12
by
FOXNEWSW
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. >> liberals are more likely to watch "law and order" or "30 rock." >> tonight tgf will not be the worst thing on television. it will be john stossel. who's with me? >> yeah, not surprised that liberals watch that. >> what difference does that make? >> it tells you things like if you want to reach an independent swing woman voter, buy the house and garden channel. if you want to reach a republican-leaning but less likely to vote independent swing man, go buy the golf channel. >> rove did research on blacks who might vote for bush and found many are christians who watch these tv preachers. >> now in the name of jesus, i command this debt out of my life. >> so rove placed advertisements there. >> in ohio, in 2000, bush got 2% of the african american vote. in 2004, he got 16%. we were able to identify a group of african american voters who, though, their history was overwhelming democrat, we had clues that gave us a sense they might be reachable. >> this year consultants want to reach not just swing voters, but swing voters in these 10 states. >> you take a map of the united states, and you
. >> liberals are more likely to watch "law and order" or "30 rock." >> tonight tgf will not be the worst thing on television. it will be john stossel. who's with me? >> yeah, not surprised that liberals watch that. >> what difference does that make? >> it tells you things like if you want to reach an independent swing woman voter, buy the house and garden channel. if you want to reach a republican-leaning but less likely to vote independent...
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Sep 29, 2012
09/12
by
CSPAN2
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then will apply the sharia law, muslim law, and the way they using the way it's adopted in iraq, and those kids in experience -- that take them and train them for three months, and after three months, once they've been brainwashed, they will ask him to call his mom so she will pray for you that you will -- they would be successful, be admitted as a suicide mission to go. this is how they convince them, brainwash them while they're telling the list is way too long and probably you won't make it on the suicider's list. have your mom pray for you and ask, you know, so you will be included on theño' suicider's l. this is a very complicated problem we have, and we think that work -- working with yemen and the cooperation on the economic level, economic package assistance, but as far as the cooperation with combating and fighting al-qaeda, let me tell everybody here in this room now. it is the beginning of the end of al-qaeda when we got rid of them. it was the first step to get rid of al-qaeda in the arab peninsula. >> thank you, mr. president. we know your time is short. we have about 1
then will apply the sharia law, muslim law, and the way they using the way it's adopted in iraq, and those kids in experience -- that take them and train them for three months, and after three months, once they've been brainwashed, they will ask him to call his mom so she will pray for you that you will -- they would be successful, be admitted as a suicide mission to go. this is how they convince them, brainwash them while they're telling the list is way too long and probably you won't make it...
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Oct 4, 2012
10/12
by
CSPAN
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that is already the law. that does not help millions of people out there with pre- existing conditions. there is a reason why governor mitt romney said of the plan he did in the massachusetts. it was the largest expansion of private insurance. what it does say is insurers -- you have to take everybody. that also means -- when gov. romney says he will replace it with something but cannot detail how it will be replaced -- and the reason he said of the system he did in massachusetts is because there is not a better way of dealing with pre-existing conditions. it just reminds me -- he says he will close deductions and loopholes for his tax plan. we do not know the details. he says that he is going to replace dodd-frank, wall street reform, but we do not know exactly which ones. he will not tell us. he now says he will replace obamacare and insurer as all the good things and it will be in there and you do not have to worry. at some point the american people have to ask themselves, is the reason gov. romney is keep
that is already the law. that does not help millions of people out there with pre- existing conditions. there is a reason why governor mitt romney said of the plan he did in the massachusetts. it was the largest expansion of private insurance. what it does say is insurers -- you have to take everybody. that also means -- when gov. romney says he will replace it with something but cannot detail how it will be replaced -- and the reason he said of the system he did in massachusetts is because...
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Oct 6, 2012
10/12
by
CSPAN
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eye 148
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there are different laws and they are divided up into strict laws and non-strict laws. with strict laws, you have to have either a photo i.d. or in non-frodo id in order to cast a ballot. -- or a non-photo id in order to cast a ballot. or you have to produce it within the next few days after voting. with non-trip, you do not have this kind of strict requirements. a poll worker that knows you can guard for you. there are different criteria in place in order to be able to vote if you do not have the idps -- the id. basically, the argument is that it prevents a voter fraud and voter identity theft. host: from the "washington post" with strict letter of the laws, kan., a florida and georgia. ... kansas, tennessee and georgia. most states are covered by non- photo id and most aren't requiring identification laws. guest: before the 2008 election, the laws were not as stringent than they were not as numerous. after the 2008 election, there seemed to be a wave of republican-controlled state legislatures pushing forth some of these laws. it seems to have evolved, in fact, into a
there are different laws and they are divided up into strict laws and non-strict laws. with strict laws, you have to have either a photo i.d. or in non-frodo id in order to cast a ballot. -- or a non-photo id in order to cast a ballot. or you have to produce it within the next few days after voting. with non-trip, you do not have this kind of strict requirements. a poll worker that knows you can guard for you. there are different criteria in place in order to be able to vote if you do not have...
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Oct 4, 2012
10/12
by
FOXNEWSW
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he apparently felt due process and rule of law would be the best weapon against al-qaida and contradicts many advisors opposed the raid. >> it is back to the bargaining table and american airlines resuming the stalled negotiations with the pilot's union. >> we had seats come loose. it is a hazard later in flight. >> yeah, it could have been messy there. >> yesterday a plane's landing gear, warning lights jammed after taking off from dallas. the plane headed to st. louis and had to make an emergency landing in texas. no one was hurt. >> $127,000 worth of jewelry swiped from the new york city brownstone of actress julianne moore. prices were lifted when construction was done. she was out of town and filming a movie in canada. there was no security cam in the building. so far investigators have not turned up evidence . >> before the gloves came off. president obama opened the debate on a softern note and wishing his wife happy anniversary. >> 20 years ago i became the luckiest man on earth because michele obama happy verzano . i want to wish you sweetie and happy anniversary and a year from
he apparently felt due process and rule of law would be the best weapon against al-qaida and contradicts many advisors opposed the raid. >> it is back to the bargaining table and american airlines resuming the stalled negotiations with the pilot's union. >> we had seats come loose. it is a hazard later in flight. >> yeah, it could have been messy there. >> yesterday a plane's landing gear, warning lights jammed after taking off from dallas. the plane headed to st. louis...
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Oct 2, 2012
10/12
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FOXNEWS
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that's the law. the administration is getting around this law with a different interpretation to indemnify lockheed martin. it's particularly important in virginia because virginia is an important electoral college state. there are lockheed martin employees in the state of virginia. the administration does not want warning layoffs going to virginia residents who work for lockheed martin on november 2, a few days before the election. martha: creative time and logistics involved in all this. bill: 10 minutes away, check it out. we are just getting started. an important piece of obama-care going into effect this week. what does that mean for you? it could mean a lot. for hospitals, too. remember this ... >> it's 3:00 a.m. and your children are safe asleep. who do you want answering the phone? martha: one of the most memorable ads of the last campaign. critics are saying the obama administration did get their 3:00 a.m. call and they flushed it. we'll talk to john bolton about this. bill: some say this is
that's the law. the administration is getting around this law with a different interpretation to indemnify lockheed martin. it's particularly important in virginia because virginia is an important electoral college state. there are lockheed martin employees in the state of virginia. the administration does not want warning layoffs going to virginia residents who work for lockheed martin on november 2, a few days before the election. martha: creative time and logistics involved in all this....